MIGAKI: In your role as a financial therapist, you've got sort of a five-step process for something that you call financial intimacy. I'm wondering if you can help us define that and talk us through it.
CLAYMAN: So with the first one, equality, what we want to capture here in a healthy financial dynamic is that both partners have equal say and equal power about what's going to happen with the money. So sometimes when a couple comes to me with an inequality imbalance, there's a partner that either has - maybe is bringing in the bulk of the income and then thus feels like they should have more say. Or sometimes there's a partner that's just more anxious about money and so really needs money to be a source of control for them and feels like their partner is just - in not agreeing with them and not doing what they say should be done with the money, that this is threatening to them. And they want their partner to kind of come to heel, if you will. So where I would approach that is, all right, well, we need to have both parties present in the decisions about the money. Just because you're more anxious or because you make more of a contribution to the income doesn't mean that you get an outsized say in this.